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New Haven Class Heavy Cruiser by Tzoli New Haven Class Heavy Cruiser by Tzoli
The idea of :iconsiveir: an improved Baltimore class Heavy Cruiser featuring 4x3 8inch (203mm) Anti Shipping Guns 8x2 5inch (127mm) and 10x4 40mm AA Guns. (Baltimore had 3x3 8inch, 6x2 5inch and 12x4 40mm Guns)

As you can see I've added an extra 8inch Triple Turret, Replaced a pair of Quad 40mm Bofors AA Guns with a Pair of 127mm AA Guns and used the Single Funnel of the Oregon City and Des Moines Classes

I call her New Haven class I use the Baltimore as a basis but introduce some changes seen on the real follow up classes like the Oregon City and Des Moines classes

Coloured:
[link]

The Simulation:

USS New Haven, United States Heavy Cruiser laid down 1944 (Engine 1945)

Displacement:
15 491 t light; 16 532 t standard; 17 989 t normal; 19 155 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(673,92 ft / 664,04 ft) x 74,64 ft x (26,25 / 27,50 ft)
(205,41 m / 202,40 m) x 22,75 m x (8,00 / 8,38 m)

Armament:
12 - 8,00" / 203 mm 55,0 cal guns - 335,10lbs / 152,00kg shells, 200 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1933 Model
4 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
16 - 5,00" / 127 mm 38,0 cal guns - 55,12lbs / 25,00kg shells, 300 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1932 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
40 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm 56,0 cal guns - 1,98lbs / 0,90kg shells, 2 000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1941 Model
2 x Quad mounts on centreline, evenly spread
8 x Quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 4 982 lbs / 2 260 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5,98" / 152 mm 442,91 ft / 135,00 m 16,40 ft / 5,00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 2,01" / 51 mm 442,91 ft / 135,00 m 8,86 ft / 2,70 m
Main Belt covers 103 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
0,98" / 25 mm 442,91 ft / 135,00 m 16,40 ft / 5,00 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 65,62 ft / 20,00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7,99" / 203 mm 3,27" / 83 mm 7,01" / 178 mm
2nd: 1,26" / 32 mm 0,98" / 25 mm 0,98" / 25 mm

- Box over machinery & magazines:
2,99" / 76 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 5,98" / 152 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 120 001 shp / 89 521 Kw = 32,22 kts
Range 9 070nm at 15,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2 622 tons

Complement:
776 - 1 009

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
24 311 lbs / 11 027 Kg = 95,0 x 8,0 " / 203 mm shells or 3,4 torpedoes
Metacentric height 3,8 ft / 1,2 m
Roll period: 16,1 seconds

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,484 / 0,492
Length to Beam Ratio: 8,90 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25,77 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Waterplane Area: 32 551 Square feet or 3 024 Square metres
Structure weight / hull surface area: 142 lbs/sq ft or 692 Kg/sq metre
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Add a Comment:
 
:iconhunter2045:
Hunter2045 Featured By Owner Nov 21, 2013
Nice work, and nice idea. Though I would have used the Des Moines class as a bases. With 12 rapid fire 8" guns, it would have outclassed some battleships.
Reply
:icontzoli:
Tzoli Featured By Owner Nov 22, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Yeah that would be better
Reply
:iconzkfanart:
zkfanart Featured By Owner Mar 10, 2013
Had some been really build, I wonder the kind of damage they could do by mixcing high firing rates with the eight inch weight of the shell. As for bombing coastal emplacements, would have been devastating. It could have been quite used at Vietnam on the 60īs, for instance. or have been rebuilt as massive missile cruisers, maybe not need delete any gun, placing a couple of twin tartar/terrier/talos launchers on the aft superstructure.
Reply
:icontzoli:
Tzoli Featured By Owner Mar 11, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Tartar and terrier launchers are needed quite the space so the aft turrets probably be deleted.
Many cruisers were proposed for such conversion:
Wichita, Baltimore, Cleveland, Des Mines, Alaska, and so on!
Reply
:iconzkfanart:
zkfanart Featured By Owner Mar 15, 2013
Hehe, I imagine how could have been lookin if they had kept the Alaskas as missile battlecruisers!
Reply
:icontzoli:
Tzoli Featured By Owner Mar 16, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Half conversion would be similar like this:
[link]

Official proposal is like an aircraft carrier, but the ship don't have a flight deck.... Those are silos!!!!
[link]
[link]
Reply
:iconzkfanart:
zkfanart Featured By Owner Mar 22, 2013
Woaaa! Amazing, never saw those proposal before... really looks like a carrier! XD
Reply
:icontzoli:
Tzoli Featured By Owner Mar 22, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Yep!

You should get this book as it contains all the missile conversion proposals:
[link]
Reply
:iconsiveir:
Siveir Featured By Owner Mar 7, 2013
The final result is excelent, in both look and performance. Thanks!
Reply
:icontzoli:
Tzoli Featured By Owner Mar 10, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Okay, what do you think about these US cruisers:

Hull, Engine and Armour are the same as my New Haven Class:
Des Moines Hull, 6inch belt 3inch deck, 120K shp
But with these Weapon layouts:

Weapons are:
8inch: Rapid Fire Mark 16
6inch: DP / Rapid Fire Mark 16
5inch: Mark 16

A: 2x3,2x2 8inch, 10x2 5inch AA Guns (2 superfiring centreline, 4 on each side)
B/1: 4x2 8inch, 2x2 6inch, 4x2 5inch AA guns
B/2: 4x2 8inch, 2x2 6inch, 6x2 5inch AA guns
C/1: 2x3 8inch, 2x3 6inch, 6x2 5inch AA guns (2 superfiring centreline, 2 on each side)
C/2: 2x3 8inch, 2x3 6inch, 8x2 5inch AA guns (2 superfiring centreline, 3 on each side)
C/3: 2x3 8inch, 2x3 6inch, 10x2 5inch AA guns (2 superfiring centreline, 4 on each side)
D/1: 2x4 8inch, 2x3 6inch, 6x2 5inch AA guns (2 superfiring centreline, 2 on each side)
D/2: 2x4 8inch, 2x3 6inch, 8x2 5inch AA guns (2 superfiring centreline, 3 on each side)
D/3: 2x4 8inch, 2x3 6inch, 10x2 5inch AA guns (2 superfiring centreline, 4 on each side)

What do you think/want to see/plausible?
Reply
:iconsiveir:
Siveir Featured By Owner Mar 11, 2013
I prefere E variant: 4x3 8", 8-10x2 5" :D
I think that the use of 6" Mk 16 DP guns on heavy cruiser is a waste of weight as it was proved during the era of semi-dreadnought that the use of two large calibres caused several problems with firing efficiency. I think 5" are better suited for a heavy cruiser as its primary AA weapon.
Reply
:icontzoli:
Tzoli Featured By Owner Mar 11, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
D
Reply
:icontzoli:
Tzoli Featured By Owner Mar 7, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
For more heavier Firepower both sea and air and a bit more deck armour I only used roughly 1 knot and 1000 nautical Mile of range!
Reply
:icondelaney8:
Delaney8 Featured By Owner Mar 7, 2013
Super Baltimore, huh? With single smokestack like Oregon City and Des Moines...
So, not only you added a fourth triple 8" turrett, you also made room for two more 5" twin mountings... so now it has more 5" guns than even the Alaska class!
Looks like a Huntington class CL after a body building session... Is it also faster than normal baltimores? Because if so, we have the ultimate 8" gunned cruiser, here! (Well, except for the lack of torpedoes... But U.S. Navy preferred cannons for cruisers...)

You know, I noticed that you have ships of all countries... british, american, italian, french, soviet, and oodles of japanese (which no one can blame you for, jap warships look beautiful... and badass). You even have a spanish Littorio... I think you need something german too...
Reply
:icontzoli:
Tzoli Featured By Owner Mar 7, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Didn't you meant 4 Twin 152mm Turrets???
[link]
Reply
:icondelaney8:
Delaney8 Featured By Owner Mar 7, 2013
no, no, I meant two quadruple barrel turrets, 152mm calibre! It was basically the same gun layout as the french battleship Gascogne...:)
Reply
:icontzoli:
Tzoli Featured By Owner Mar 7, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Is this was a real proposal???
Reply
:icontzoli:
Tzoli Featured By Owner Mar 7, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
As I thought there were no quad turreted Emden design. That wiki text probably a mistranslation the official design was 4x2 or 8x1 152mm Guns. Also Germany never ever designed Quad turrets and cruisers were not too suited to carry such turrets. Of course the Soviets designed quad turreted cruisers but that was after the war and were elevated turrets:
Called the MLK designs:
[link]
Gun turrets would be similar to this:
[link]
Reply
:icondelaney8:
Delaney8 Featured By Owner Mar 11, 2013
Yeah... Still, it was not that unplausible: the Dunkerque class battleship had quadruple 5,1inch secondary guns...
Reply
:icontzoli:
Tzoli Featured By Owner Mar 11, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Yeah but that is a Battlecruiser (or fast battleship) and not a 20-ies early 30-ies era light cruiser
Reply
:icondelaney8:
Delaney8 Featured By Owner Mar 7, 2013
I think so...
Reply
:icontzoli:
Tzoli Featured By Owner Mar 7, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Yes it have more guns than the Alaska because Alaska had a midship Seaplane Catapult which took away much of the space. In my opinion if it would had been placed in the aft as any other US capital ship than there could be mounted 1-2 pair of extra 5inchAA Turrets.

By New Haven have 1 knots less speed and 1000nm less range than the Baltimore (33knots and 10K nm) but have 3inch deck armour instead of the 2.5inch of the Belti.

I don't like German ships they lack elegance or sorts. But I did re-draw once a H-44, just not posted here as it wasn't my best design:
[link]

Also Germans lack the cruiser designs other nations created or built, they lack capital ship designs too!
But I could create a 3x3 all forward Bismarck, Scharnhorst or H-39/41...
Reply
:icondelaney8:
Delaney8 Featured By Owner Mar 7, 2013
You're absolutely right about the miship catapults on Alaskas: i'm still asking myself why they made another "swayback maru" when they had already ditched that configuration on nearly every battleship and cruiser they were building.

Also, I see USS New Haven here has two stern cranes like the early Baltimores... :)

You' ve Richelieu-ed an H-44 there! I think it looks nice...

I had a little suggestion: the kriegsmarine light cruiser Emden was projected with 2 quad 6" turrets, one forward and one aft, but was built in a completely different way due to England and France not wanting Germany to develop new weapons... I think it would have looked pretty cool in his original form...
Reply
:icontzoli:
Tzoli Featured By Owner Mar 10, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Okay, what do you think about these US cruisers:

Hull, Engine and Armour are the same as my New Haven Class:
Des Moines Hull, 6inch belt 3inch deck, 120K shp
But with these Weapon layouts:

Weapons are:
8inch: Rapid Fire Mark 16
6inch: DP / Rapid Fire Mark 16
5inch: Mark 16

A: 2x3,2x2 8inch, 10x2 5inch AA Guns (2 superfiring centreline, 4 on each side)
B/1: 4x2 8inch, 2x2 6inch, 4x2 5inch AA guns
B/2: 4x2 8inch, 2x2 6inch, 6x2 5inch AA guns
C/1: 2x3 8inch, 2x3 6inch, 6x2 5inch AA guns (2 superfiring centreline, 2 on each side)
C/2: 2x3 8inch, 2x3 6inch, 8x2 5inch AA guns (2 superfiring centreline, 3 on each side)
C/3: 2x3 8inch, 2x3 6inch, 10x2 5inch AA guns (2 superfiring centreline, 4 on each side)
D/1: 2x4 8inch, 2x3 6inch, 6x2 5inch AA guns (2 superfiring centreline, 2 on each side)
D/2: 2x4 8inch, 2x3 6inch, 8x2 5inch AA guns (2 superfiring centreline, 3 on each side)
D/3: 2x4 8inch, 2x3 6inch, 10x2 5inch AA guns (2 superfiring centreline, 4 on each side)

What do you think/want to see/plausible?
Reply
:icondelaney8:
Delaney8 Featured By Owner Mar 11, 2013
Sorry for delay, first of all :(

Now, down to business:

A:Love the idea, seems like a modernized Pensacola... I think it's very plausible :)

B/1:I suppose the two 6inch turrets are axial, superfiring over the 8inch pairs... if that's the case I think it's conceivable, but maybe a bit top heavy...

B/2: same as above, but more 5inch guns mounted lower down on the main deck can keep the center of gravity down, making it more stable... after all, though, i'd go for all 5" guns as secondaries in the B/1 and B/2 designs...

C/1: really like it, a blend of heavy and light cruisers... seems also more plausible than the previous two

C/2: a lot like New Haven, only with two 8" turrets replaced by 6"... if they actually built New Haven class, this one would easily see the sunlight too!

C/3: pretty packed with 5"AA guns...
I think C/2 is more plausible... after all, it's a cruiser, not a battleship...

D/1: WOW!!! Quad 8" turrets! Love it!

D/2: Improved... if all these cruisers take their origin from New Haven, this is the most plausible of the D designs... I'd go for this one

D/3: I think it has the same problem of the C/3: a bit too much 5"AA turrets...
That's not the case of the A design because of lighter twin 8" guns superfiring... or does the A design have triples superfiring over doubles like the Pensacolas? In that case you should take off two 5" turrets...

All considered, the A is the most plausible... but I'd love to see at least one of the B, C and D variants... especially the C/2 and D/2!

Hope I've been of help! I'm looking forward to see what you'll come up with next time!
Reply
:icontzoli:
Tzoli Featured By Owner Mar 11, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Yeah the 6inch turrets are always superfiring and the guns are as used on the Worchester and Des Moines classes while the 5inch that used on the Midway but in twin mountings.
Reply
:icondelaney8:
Delaney8 Featured By Owner Mar 11, 2013
thought so :)
You know, it may sound a bit "pre-dreadnought", having 8", 6" and 5" cal. guns on the same ship, but the idea is really nice...
Especially the D design seen frontally: a twin 5" turret, superfiring over a triple 6" turret, superfiring over a quad 8" turret... that must look great!
Reply
:icontzoli:
Tzoli Featured By Owner Mar 11, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Yeah :D
And on top of the bridge is a single 20mm or 40mm MG :XD:
Reply
(1 Reply)
:icontzoli:
Tzoli Featured By Owner Mar 7, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Twin Quad Emden????
Reply
:icondelaney8:
Delaney8 Featured By Owner Mar 7, 2013
Hell yes! It was essentially a small "panzershiff" with twin quad 6" turrets instead of twin triple 11"!

Also, the Deutschland class and this design were conceived together...
Reply
:icontzoli:
Tzoli Featured By Owner Mar 7, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Hmmm Need to gather info about it
Reply
:icondelaney8:
Delaney8 Featured By Owner Mar 7, 2013
Do you speak Italian?
[link](incrociatore)
In the english version, it says 4 dual turrets, in the italian version 2 quad turrets...
Reply
:icontzoli:
Tzoli Featured By Owner Mar 7, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
That link is the city of Emden...
Reply
(1 Reply)
:icondelaney8:
Delaney8 Featured By Owner Mar 7, 2013
I hope Italians are right this time...
Reply
:iconcanadiansamurai95:
Canadiansamurai95 Featured By Owner Mar 6, 2013
Looks great! I have a few suggestions that in my opinion will enhance it's anti-aircraft armament:

Model the stern after the Iowa Class BB's with two quad 40mm gun tubs.
Extend the super-structure to encompass the fore and aft 5 inch turrets to make room for a 20mm position of three twin mounts.
Raise the 40mm tubs between the broadside 5 inch turrets up a deck to protect the crews from the muzzle flash and give them a greater firing arc.
Make room on the super structure and deck for 20mm positions.

Dude, I totally under stand and take no offense if you discount my suggestions. Keep up the good work.
Reply
:icontzoli:
Tzoli Featured By Owner Mar 10, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Okay, what do you think about these US cruisers:

Hull, Engine and Armour are the same as my New Haven Class:
Des Moines Hull, 6inch belt 3inch deck, 120K shp
But with these Weapon layouts:

Weapons are:
8inch: Rapid Fire Mark 16
6inch: DP / Rapid Fire Mark 16
5inch: Mark 16

A: 2x3,2x2 8inch, 10x2 5inch AA Guns (2 superfiring centreline, 4 on each side)
B/1: 4x2 8inch, 2x2 6inch, 4x2 5inch AA guns
B/2: 4x2 8inch, 2x2 6inch, 6x2 5inch AA guns
C/1: 2x3 8inch, 2x3 6inch, 6x2 5inch AA guns (2 superfiring centreline, 2 on each side)
C/2: 2x3 8inch, 2x3 6inch, 8x2 5inch AA guns (2 superfiring centreline, 3 on each side)
C/3: 2x3 8inch, 2x3 6inch, 10x2 5inch AA guns (2 superfiring centreline, 4 on each side)
D/1: 2x4 8inch, 2x3 6inch, 6x2 5inch AA guns (2 superfiring centreline, 2 on each side)
D/2: 2x4 8inch, 2x3 6inch, 8x2 5inch AA guns (2 superfiring centreline, 3 on each side)
D/3: 2x4 8inch, 2x3 6inch, 10x2 5inch AA guns (2 superfiring centreline, 4 on each side)

What do you think/want to see/plausible?
Reply
:iconcanadiansamurai95:
Canadiansamurai95 Featured By Owner Mar 12, 2013
I am honored you choose my council or this project. Here are my selections of the designs you provided.

C/3 and D/3 stand out to me as plausible choices. I'm a big advocate of anti-aircraft guns, especially DP / Rapid Fire, so that is why I choose them. 'A' also strikes me as a well balanced and efficient design. I would be glad to see any of these designs come to fruition.

I hope I have been some help in deciding what design(s) to draw. Feel free to contact me any time with similar requests.
Reply
:icontzoli:
Tzoli Featured By Owner Mar 13, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Thanks
Reply
:iconcanadiansamurai95:
Canadiansamurai95 Featured By Owner Mar 14, 2013
Gland to be of service.
Reply
:icontzoli:
Tzoli Featured By Owner Mar 7, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Naah, This is a Heavy Cruiser not a Battleship you can't really put many things on it before it became unstable! Also I even not drawn and included the Myriad of Single 20mm MG's!
As for the Bofors ones, they are well protected and located on the right places, see the original:
[link]
203mm/8inch guns don't have that big Muzzle Blast as the Battleships Big Cannons, and they are well placed there if the superfiring main turrets fire a broadside the 40mm's are just under the barrels.
Reply
:iconcanadiansamurai95:
Canadiansamurai95 Featured By Owner Mar 8, 2013
OK. I can't wait for future designs from you
Reply
:icontzoli:
Tzoli Featured By Owner Mar 8, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Well my next one is this:
[link]
After it I want to draw the Australian Cockatoo Naval Yard's Heavy Cruiser Design
Reply
:iconcanadiansamurai95:
Canadiansamurai95 Featured By Owner Mar 8, 2013
Can't wait!
Reply
:iconienkoron:
Ienkoron Featured By Owner Mar 6, 2013
Looking good so far :D
Reply
:icontzoli:
Tzoli Featured By Owner Mar 10, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Okay, what do you think about these US cruisers:

Hull, Engine and Armour are the same as my New Haven Class:
Des Moines Hull, 6inch belt 3inch deck, 120K shp
But with these Weapon layouts:

Weapons are:
8inch: Rapid Fire Mark 16
6inch: DP / Rapid Fire Mark 16
5inch: Mark 16

A: 2x3,2x2 8inch, 10x2 5inch AA Guns (2 superfiring centreline, 4 on each side)
B/1: 4x2 8inch, 2x2 6inch, 4x2 5inch AA guns
B/2: 4x2 8inch, 2x2 6inch, 6x2 5inch AA guns
C/1: 2x3 8inch, 2x3 6inch, 6x2 5inch AA guns (2 superfiring centreline, 2 on each side)
C/2: 2x3 8inch, 2x3 6inch, 8x2 5inch AA guns (2 superfiring centreline, 3 on each side)
C/3: 2x3 8inch, 2x3 6inch, 10x2 5inch AA guns (2 superfiring centreline, 4 on each side)
D/1: 2x4 8inch, 2x3 6inch, 6x2 5inch AA guns (2 superfiring centreline, 2 on each side)
D/2: 2x4 8inch, 2x3 6inch, 8x2 5inch AA guns (2 superfiring centreline, 3 on each side)
D/3: 2x4 8inch, 2x3 6inch, 10x2 5inch AA guns (2 superfiring centreline, 4 on each side)

What do you think/want to see/plausible?
Reply
:iconienkoron:
Ienkoron Featured By Owner Mar 10, 2013
I'd go for the D/3, as I am always for a Cruiser that has a heavy compliment of AA so that they can form a screen around the heavies (BBs & CVs)
Reply
:icontzoli:
Tzoli Featured By Owner Mar 11, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Hmm
Reply
:iconienkoron:
Ienkoron Featured By Owner Mar 11, 2013
:)
Reply
:icontzoli:
Tzoli Featured By Owner Mar 7, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
It's finished :XD:
I just have to make a coloured one D
Reply
:iconienkoron:
Ienkoron Featured By Owner Mar 7, 2013
That's what I'm waiting for :P:D
Reply
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